Leah Segedie on the Truth About PFAS and How to (Somewhat) Avoid Them


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Katie: Whats up, and welcome to the wellness mama podcast. I’m Katie from wellnessmama.com and wellnesse.com. That’s wellness with an E on the tip. And I’m right here as we speak with Leah Segedie, who helps girls and mothers make safer client selections for his or her households. And she or he is the creator at mamavation.com. And on this episode, we speak particularly about one thing known as PFAS, that are chemical compounds which are present in all types of family merchandise. We go deep on this as we speak, however we discuss what they’re, why they’re thought of eternally chemical compounds, how there are over 10,000 within the surroundings, and the way they have an effect on the physique in loads of alternative ways. We discuss how testing may be very nuanced, and the way even pure and natural merchandise can have traces of those chemical compounds, keep away from them with out going loopy and a lot extra, very, very fact-packed episode. I do know I discovered loads. I hope you’ll too. So let’s be part of Leah. Leah, welcome again. How are you?


Leah: Hey, thanks for having me on Katie, so good to see you once more too. I by no means get to see you.


Katie: Likewise, I really like that we do video now. For anyone listening who didn’t know, there’s video on YouTube that you just guys can really watch our faces whereas we speak. I believe most individuals nonetheless hear on podcast apps, but it surely’s enjoyable to get to see your face. Really feel prefer it makes it extra private. And such as you stated, it’s been some time since we received to catch up. And we’re going to get to catch up in-depth on a really explicit difficulty. However earlier than we do, I’ve a word in my present notes that you’ve hip dysplasia and are mainly a human pretzel. So I might simply love to listen to a bit bit about this story first.


Leah: Okay, so there’s a genetic hip situation in my household. I’ve it, my mom has it. We don’t know additional than that as a result of my mom is adopted, but it surely’s hip dysplasia. Now, most individuals have heard of hip dysplasia as a result of they’ve a canine. And that canine has hip dysplasia, and it’s a bit wiener canine or one thing. And so the those that have heard about it are like, “Sure, my canine has that.” And no, I’m not a canine. However sure, that illness does occur in people. However there’s two varieties of those that it’s actually widespread in, Native American Cherokee Indian, and the Sami, who’re in Norway, Finland, and Sweden, they usually’re the reindeer individuals. And I completely come from a Nordic, so it’s completely coming from the Sami. And so they have a lot of it, it’s been written up in Nationwide Geographic and stuff, so you possibly can Google it. However mainly, what it means is my hips come out of the socket, there’s about this a lot room in my socket that’s simply open. So I can simply pop it out of socket each time I need.


Now, once I’m working, that’s dangerous, as a result of it doesn’t really feel good. However the cool factor is, it makes me very limber. In case you can think about me being pregnant, like 9 months pregnant, and having the ability to put my foot again right here once I’m stretching. Like private trainers freak out after they see this proper? And it’s completely cool for me. So I’m very versatile and I could make myself a pretzel by placing each of my toes right here. But when I do it, if I get the second up, I simply go ahead, so the one place I need to do it’s within the mattress. As a result of you realize, I don’t have the…I simply appear to be a humorous toy once I try this. However it is extremely attention-grabbing and humorous to speak about. However sure, I can put my toes proper again right here and like a human pretzel. Completely.


Katie: That’s humorous. And one in all my…


Leah: If nobody has recognized me then now they’re simply gonna know that I’m Leah Segedie, the human pretzel, which I discover wonderful.


Katie: Properly, and one in all my favourite journey recollections of all time was really visiting northern Finland and getting to satisfy the Sami tribe. They’re among the most fascinating individuals I’ve ever met and completely lovely the best way their life-style is, very completely different than mine in a really heat local weather. And it was so, so cool to see. In order that’s cool and you’ve got a tie to them as properly.


Leah: Yeah, I’ve a tie them after which…however I’ve extra of my kinfolk that I do know which are in Sweden, however they’re extra within the metropolis now. And Bergen, Norway too, I’ve loads of kinfolk which are in Bergen, which is basically cool to go to as a result of the fjords are simply wonderful. It’s a must to go there as soon as in your lifetime.


Katie: I’ll put it on the record. And I really feel like I may discuss that every one day lengthy. However we even have one other necessary matter that I believe can be actually related to lots of people listening, even when they don’t understand it’s going to be so related to them. And I do know that you’ve been doing a brilliant, tremendous, tremendous deep dive into this matter, which is why I used to be so excited to speak to you about them as we speak. So I’d say let’s begin actually, actually broad and simply outline the important thing time period that we’re going to speak loads about as we speak, which is I hope I pronounced it proper, PFAS?


Leah: It’s known as, you possibly can seek advice from it as PFAS or PFAS. However PFAS might be what you’re going to listen to most individuals say P-F-A-S, so it’s simply an abbreviation they usually’re simply placing it collectively. So basically, once we’re speaking about PFAS, we’re speaking about over ten thousand chemical compounds and a chemical class. And so they all have fluorine and carbon in them of their bond. However you’ve heard of those chemical compounds as a result of it’s all of the stain-resistant, waterproof, grease-proof chemical compounds that we now have been form of swimming in for many years. Now, these chemical compounds was once regarded as protected, you realize, inert, like okay, however within the final couple many years, we discovered that they’re persistent, which implies they don’t go away. Scientists don’t even know what the half-life of those chemical compounds are. That’s why they’re known as eternally chemical compounds. These eternally chemical compounds can final in your physique for a few years or many years. They simply actually don’t know the extent of all of it and why as a result of there’s 10,000 of them and the unbiased scientists who have been coming within the backend attempting to see in the event that they’re protected, it’s been loads and lot loads of dangerous information. So if you happen to’ve heard about carpet not having PFAS in it anymore, or clothes corporations popping out and, you realize, engaged on PFAS options, or if in case you have thrown out your Teflon cookware, that’s one other instance. These are all examples of PFAS chemical compounds that we now have had in our lives for many years. And now we perceive how extremely problematic they’re.


So what I’m doing proper now could be, and thru Mamavation, is basically attempting to construct up some consciousness round girls, in order that they know what to search for and know keep away from them. And the toughest a part of this example is it’s not possible to utterly keep away from them. You would need to stay…you couldn’t even go to, I imply, Iceland, or the place the polar bears are, you’ll nonetheless discover them there. So that you actually can’t keep away from them. That’s as a result of they’re persistent, they usually get all over the place. However what we will do is we will make educated choices and selections in our residence, and decrease the quantity that we’re uncovered to, and most of all our youngsters are uncovered to as a result of that’s the place that is actually, actually necessary is the subsequent technology.


Katie: Yeah, I do know, we’re very aligned on that, and the significance of, in lots of areas, enhancing issues for our youngsters. What are among the problematic areas we see in the case of these and well being? I do know, like, we’re nonetheless doing analysis on this and, such as you stated, loads of this analysis is just within the final couple of many years. However what do we all know so far as how this impacts human well being?


Leah: So initially, it’s an androgen mimicker. So it goes into your physique and your physique really thinks it’s a hormone for males. It thinks it’s testosterone, so it thinks it’s androgen. So for boys, little boys and males, that is worse than for ladies, it’s actually dangerous for ladies, but it surely’s worse for males. So simply give it some thought by way of that, you don’t want further testosterone in your physique. However if you happen to’re a person, and also you get further testosterone in your physique, your physique says, “Okay, achieved, I’ve produced sufficient.” And so for a person, it brings down your testosterone, which is one thing that’s actually dangerous if you happen to’re attempting to have a child, otherwise you’re attempting to breed, you realize. The opposite factor that it does, it’s actually problematic, that’s linked with every little thing else is it kills your immune system, basically, it brings down your immunity so that you just can not battle off ailments.


Now, right here’s an instance of one thing of how that is taking place. Now, I don’t understand how many individuals are professional or anti-vaccine or no matter. However what I’ll say, and that is very, very, very sound science, that the extra PFAS you could have in your system, the much less possible vaccinations will work inside your physique as a result of it’s bringing down your immune system, your physique simply can’t do it. In order that’s among the stuff that they’re discovering, oh, inside the final three, 4 years is that they’re taking a look at infants, and the way infants reply. And I don’t know in the event that they’ve achieved this in adults, however they’ve positively achieved in youngsters. And so they know that the extra you could have in your physique, and keep in mind, this may occur in utero since you’re pregnant, the much less possible you possibly can reply to one thing like a vaccine, or every other sort of medicine that’s like that, that’s imagined to deliver up your immune system. In order that’s one factor you actually need to watch out about.


They’re additionally linking it to metabolism points and sort 2 diabetes. So that they’re linking it to sort 2 diabetes, particularly in girls. So there’s loads of girls strolling round who’re having points and it could have one thing to do with the quantity of PFAS that they’ve of their system. After which, after all, cancers, there’s loads of cancers that is linked to, like prostate most cancers and people sorts of issues, which is smart if you happen to understand it really works like an artificial androgen in your physique. In order that’s form of the totality of it. The issue that we’re actually, actually coping with is, you realize, what’s taking place to us can also be taking place to the earth. It’s persistent on the market, it’s getting within the soil, it’s getting within the groundwater, it’s getting in our client merchandise, it’s getting in all types of issues.


And so to be conscious that that is on the market, however not petrified, proper, since you don’t need to stress your self out to the quantity that you just’re making your self sick, proper? However on the planet of, these are chemical compounds that I need to keep away from, it is a 10, and this is sort of a 3, PFAS is larger up there, it’s extra of an 8, 9, or 10 is what I might take a look at first earlier than you determine some…I don’t know, if you happen to’re anxious about one thing like sodium benzoate in your shampoo versus PFAS in one thing, don’t even fear concerning the sodium benzoate. You recognize what I imply? Like, these varieties of issues. That’s a much bigger class that you just simply need to keep away from.


Katie: Yeah. So many necessary factors I believe you’ve simply made. And I believe what I might simply spotlight is whether or not individuals are in favor of vaccines or they’re not, I believe that’s its personal separate dialog, however the necessary similarity there may be that in each instances, whether or not you’re speaking pure immunity or vaccine immunity, you want a functioning immune system to create that impact. And so I really feel like that’s really a commonality. It’s really easy for that to develop into a polarizing difficulty. However in each instances, it’s like how will we assist the immune system in pure methods in both of these instances, and that’s one thing we will really all agree on. And so it is a piece of that puzzle. I consider loads of similarities like plastic-type chemical compounds, as an example, as properly, these are very problematic, they’ve now saturated the planet, they’re storing in our our bodies, which additionally brings up the query, how if potential in any respect will we get these out of our physique as soon as we’ve been uncovered?


Leah: You’ll be able to’t. Properly, right here’s the exhausting factor, it builds up. So it’s a kind of chemical compounds that we don’t have any proof of something having the ability to take it out of our physique. That’s the exhausting half. Proper? And that’s absolutely the fact. If individuals inform you the alternative, I don’t understand how supported that’s by the details, proper? So that is a kind of distinctive chemical compounds that doesn’t function like different chemical compounds, you realize, loads of these nasty, persistent chemical compounds are trapped in fats. So if you happen to can pull it out by way of the fats, then you possibly can pull it out of the physique, that is repelled by fats. So it simply actually operates very in a different way in your physique, and the reply is they simply don’t know.


So what the best-case state of affairs is correct now could be to keep away from it as a lot as you possibly can, select merchandise that don’t have it, be very cautious of it whenever you’re pregnant, after which when your youngsters are about 5, and so up till that, that’s whenever you’re simply you realize, searching for it, avoiding it. After that, you don’t need it, however after all, you realize, hormone-disrupting chemical compounds are worse throughout hormone adjustments throughout the physique. So the worst time is prenatal. In order that’s when every little thing is altering and it right down to the second, the minute, you realize, issues received to only align proper. The second half is whenever you’re out and it’s 5 years, you realize, your physique has like pure defenses it builds up doesn’t actually have that till you’re over 5.


Now, the third time in your life, for girls particularly, and for males, is whenever you undergo the change, proper, you begin to develop into a lady otherwise you develop into a person, that’s a time when, as a mom, you need to begin to consider this, regardless that they don’t care, you continue to need to give it some thought, proper? After which in the direction of the tip of your life, for girls it’s whenever you undergo the change once more and also you cease having the ability to, you realize, have a child. And for males, I don’t know when males undergo, you realize, that change, somebody ought to inform me, however I’ve three boys, it could be good to know, really. However these are an important instances so that you can begin enthusiastic about this stuff, when these varieties of individuals…you realize when you could have youngsters in the home.


Katie: Yeah, and I believe the steadiness, such as you stated is necessary, like keep away from it each time potential, however to not the purpose that it’s inflicting stress, which we additionally know is extraordinarily dangerous to well being. After which from there, I at all times consider, particularly once we’re speaking about chemical compounds, we don’t really know get out of the physique. It’s like assist the pure detox pathways in any approach potential. After which attempt to hold a balanced stress stage and never be stressing about it past that. So I’m a giant fan of issues like sauna, simply fundamental hydration, consuming meals like inexperienced leafy greens that bind to extra phytoestrogens and different chemical compounds within the physique.


Leah: And poop, proper? As a result of all of the dangerous stuff comes out whenever you poop, you need to try this, proper? I’m speaking about poop and this, poop and PFAS is hilarious. However we don’t know if it comes…I imply, we simply…you realize, they haven’t achieved research on that but. However I believe it’s as a result of they’re so overwhelmed proper now attempting to determine the ins and the outs of all these chemical compounds. You have been saying one thing about plasticizers. Sarcastically, it’s additionally a plasticizer. As a result of there’s a complete class known as PTFE, which is on these Teflon pans, which is form of like, which is a polymer. And sarcastically, you realize, once I do testing, there aren’t any assessments to search out all of those polymers. So once I’m testing for these chemical compounds, and I’m searching for over 10,000 of them, the form of testing that I’m working is extra of a spot verify. It’s trying to see if these chemical components are there, it’s not telling you what particular PFAS it’s as a result of it’s not possible. There’s solely about 90 chemical compounds you possibly can take a look at for at a very good business lab. Most of those labs you could take a look at for will solely be capable of take a look at for perhaps 16 to 30. However it’s in a college lab, they will in all probability discover about 150, however that’s it for compound testing and discovering out precisely what it’s.


The opposite possibility is what you see loads of NGOs doing and us doing is we search for fluorine in any product, proper? And so then you definitely function one other take a look at that pulls out the fluoride from the fluorine, which is the pure and leaves the artifical, and we search for one thing known as natural fluorine, which isn’t an exquisite factor. After I say natural by way of chemistry, it doesn’t imply the natural requirements. No, it form of means the alternative, it means man-made. So I’m searching for the man-made fluorine. While you discover that, there’s form of solely two choices. One is PFAS, which it’s very prone to be, the opposite one is fluorinated prescribed drugs as a result of 25% of pharmaceutical merchandise are all fluorinated, so these are the 2 issues that I might be discovering. The testing that I function is a very excessive take a look at. It appears at 10 elements per million. Now, regardless that I’m saying elements per million, and that’s actually tiny, it’s really a bigger quantity as a result of after they’re testing in water, they’re wanting all the best way down within the elements per trillion, which is sort of a drop in three Olympic dimension swimming pools, proper? And so mine can be perhaps a drop in a daily pool or one thing like that, proper? So we’re taking a look at far bigger, and we’re not wanting in water, we’re wanting in client merchandise, like private care, something that may be burned, basically, as a result of that’s how the take a look at is, burns issues, you realize. So if it could possibly’t be burned, we will’t use that testing methodology. Then there’s different issues we will take a look at.


However it’s additionally actually tough to search out, and you realize, the devils within the particulars, if you happen to can’t discover it and isolate it, then can they regulate it? I don’t know. In order that’s the place I really feel like I’m form of standing within the center right here. I’m sending loads of merchandise off to the lab and I’m beginning with merchandise that we might buy that will be pure, you realize, sending these off first as a affirmation as a result of my viewers needs to know concerning the issues that they’re already buying first, after which they need to learn about every little thing else. And you’ll be form of shocked, within the pure trade, how a lot of this chemical we’re going to search out. There’s loads of causes behind that.


One of many causes is, like as an example, if you happen to’re shopping for natural meals, there’s nothing within the natural requirements to forestall them from utilizing FDA-approved components in manufacturing. And so they don’t have any requirements behind that, and I simply confirmed that once more final week as a result of I used to be, you realize, emailing them, I’m like, “Oh, I can’t discover something within the requirements.” And so they’re like, “It’s not there.” And so they’ll say to me one thing like, “Properly, it’s best to, you realize, stress the FDA to take these out of…you realize, as accredited oblique components, as an alternative of coming down on us.” And I’m like, “I believe it’s best to in all probability repair this within the requirements, I simply assume it’s best to.” However that’s simply my opinion.


So it may be in something, basically. And if you happen to check out the FDA web site, on what’s accredited for a meals contact sort of substance, there’s loads of polymers which are accredited, polymeric PFAS. So which means these are PFAS chemical compounds which are made up of all these various kinds of monomers. So it’s prefer it’s a PFAS manufactured from PFAS, and likewise, but it surely turns into like a plastic, proper? So we’re going to see this, in all probability, I’m pondering, since there’s so lots of them which are accredited by the FDA, that’s in all probability what we might in all probability be seeing in meals, you realize, sort of producing. I’ve by no means been in a position to isolate and discover it as a result of these assessments are simply not out there. However I hold seeing it in all types of merchandise. And I’m actually completely happy to do that testing as a result of not solely do I need to know, however as soon as I began testing, everyone else needed to know as properly. So it’s an amazing service that we’re in a position to present for individuals at Mamavation. I’m actually completely happy to have the ability to do that.


Katie: I’m going to go line by line with some widespread merchandise and like, undergo what you discovered on the testing. However earlier than we get into the extra detailed half, I might love to listen to what are among the widespread sources within the residence surroundings that some individuals listening…particularly lots of people listening are already extra naturally minded, like your viewers as properly. What can be among the widespread sources and the way can we begin to keep away from it within the residence?


Leah: So the primary place goes to be you’re going to eat it and drink it, that’s the place they nonetheless assume you’re getting the overwhelming majority of that is. Quite a lot of this might be cookware, so if in case you have Teflon-based cookware or nonstick cookware in any respect, I might keep away from that. Clearly, I do know you’ve received nice content material about that and I’ve received content material about that, that have been form of shoving you guys off of nano-based cookware and nonstick cookware. In order that’s one place. You additionally need to search for it in your small kitchen home equipment, as a result of you’ll discover it in issues like air fryers, you’ll discover it in issues like toasters, and it’s not on the meals contact floor, it’s outdoors. And the loopy factor about that’s if it’s on the partitions on the skin, if it will get too scorching, it could possibly disperse into that air so it’s nonetheless form of a problem. So we’re proper now working by way of these merchandise for air fryers and all types of various issues. I might simply say name up the corporate, look and double-check to guarantee that they’re not including something to those merchandise on the surfaces. Positively not meals contact, meals contact can be the primary half, however that’s what I search for.


Meals packaging is one other difficulty, issues that we don’t consider like parchment paper. I discovered it in parchment paper. So there are some parchment papers which are manufactured from silicone and there’s some parchment papers which are manufactured from PFAS. And so they, a few of them generally they’ll inform you, however you bought to be trying to see which of them, and simply to form of assist out your individuals proper now as a result of I do know that you just’re going to ask me which of them are protected. If You Care, we examined that particular model, it’s the brown wrapper that appears form of recycled, that one we didn’t discover something in. One other Finnish firm, which is known as Gifbera, after which one other one known as Katbite, which I believe is Korean, these are all out there on Amazon. So If You Care, Gifbera, Katbite, these we examined, and we didn’t discover something, however we did discover it in Reynolds. And we did discover it in Kirkland, so Costco. So these are meals packaging.


However right here’s like, loads of instances whenever you’re going to get this in your meals packaging, it’s going to be extra of a problem of I went out to eat, or I’m utilizing one thing that’s processed. So the reply is the extra you possibly can cook dinner from scratch at residence, the extra you’re going to have the ability to eliminate these contaminants with out even realizing about it as a result of loads of instances it has to do with the processing of the meals by some means, and the way these chemical compounds, be in polymers or no matter, are entering into every little thing. So the extra you possibly can cook dinner by yourself…once more, I believe that’s in all probability one thing that you just love to listen to, the extra you possibly can cook dinner utilizing components that you realize about, the higher off you’re.


One other actually large space is family mud. This isn’t one thing that you’d take into consideration. However you realize, your mud is then analyzed. Your family mud has been analyzed at a lab, not yours particularly, however different individuals’s. And it comprises loads of fireplace retardants, phthalates, and PFAS. And that’s coming off of your electrical gear in your own home. So your tv in all probability has some PFAS within the wiring, perhaps has it someplace. And when that plastic will get scorching, loads of these plastics have fireplace retardants and different varieties of issues inside them. Now, over time, and I imply, over years, because it will get scorching, they form of emit into the air, and these particles are extremely magnetized in the direction of mud. So that they persist with the mud they usually fall, proper?


So how do you get this out of your own home? I might say simply mud, I hate that reply however that’s actually the reply. The extra you mud, you realize, the cleaner you retain your own home, the much less possible your youngsters are going to be uncovered to this. Now, I can’t cease them from like, you realize, being on carpet in case you could have outdated carpeting with PFAS on it, there’s nothing I can do for that different than simply vacuum a ton, you realize, to get that stuff out of it, it would break down over time and be launched. So vacuum as a lot as you possibly can, these varieties of issues. Get an air air purifier, among the finest air purifiers are on the market. Although I do know those that we suggest are in all probability additionally going to be pulling in PFAS as a result of in the event that they’re pulling within the mud, that’s the place it’s, proper? So that you need to eliminate the mud.


Make-up and private care, it is a actually tough difficulty. Earlier this 12 months, they did an investigation not me, however the precise scientists, proper? And they also checked out over 300 typical, largely typical make-up merchandise they usually discovered it overwhelmingly in make-up, give it some thought like this, stays longer, waterproof, you realize what I’m saying? You need your make-up to remain in your face and never go wherever and the extra we’ve demanded that the extra they put in PFAS. So that you need to form of search for issues that don’t have any claims about long-lasting, don’t have any claims about being waterproof.


I might say we discovered about six or seven completely different manufacturers of make-up within the pure world that I didn’t discover, you realize, any natural fluorine on the ranges we’re searching for. However most of even the pure magnificence merchandise, you realize, make-up manufacturers, it’s like…like, I used to be taking a look at loads of issues, mascara and lip gloss so to talk as a result of I knew that these are like what everybody’s utilizing every single day, proper, lip gloss, after which if it’s basis, it’s like next-level dedication, proper? So we simply went within the first go dedication, and in some manufacturers, we discovered it not of their mascara however discovered of their lip gloss or vice versa. So it was actually tough to form of be capable of say this model or that model as a result of we needed to do loads of testing to determine that out. So make-up I might say, and different than simply, you realize, following me and what I’m testing there’s no different reply to make-up as a result of nobody’s placing that info on the market. Even the scientists who have been taking a look at it, they’re probably not like granting you the uncooked knowledge to have the ability to determine which one they examined however that’s why we did it.


One other factor is like water, look into your water. This can be a actually large deal as a result of if you happen to stay by a navy base otherwise you stay by an airport that is actually necessary, navy bases and airports have been utilizing firefighting foam to place out grease fires which have PFAS in them and it has seeped into the groundwater under and has contaminated loads of groundwater by these bases. So if you happen to stay by an airport otherwise you stay by a navy base, I might simply exit and get a water air purifier regardless, don’t even wait. As a result of the reply is it’s in all probability going to be there and it might not be a sort of PFAS that we will acknowledge simply but. You recognize, as a result of that’s the opposite downside with water is, we’re not as much as testing in any respect. So I might simply assume, you realize, that that’s how I’m working proper now could be I’m simply assuming, regardless that our water system doesn’t have something in it, it’s like, yeah, you solely examined 16 of them, you realize, there’s like 10,000 on the market, you realize, that’s how I really feel like there’s a giant gaping gap. So water, work on water.


Clothes is one other large one, however the reply to clothes is we don’t know the reply behind dermal contact. So I’ve loads of advisors who work on this and a few of them are working behind the scenes to growing strategies for testing. A few of them, you realize, they’re working at various kinds of phases in various kinds of methods with this chemical. However the one factor that all of them agreed on was we don’t know sufficient about dermal contact. We don’t know if one thing rubs up towards your pores and skin, and it’s a PFAS chemical, will it get in? How will it get in? How a lot we’ll get in? We don’t know.


And since we don’t know, we will’t make any statements about that. So the reply is we don’t know. However the place are you going to search out it? Something that’s stain proof, keep away from issues which are stain proof, completely 100% as a result of that’s the place it’s going to be. It’s in loads of jackets waterproof. We did an investigation on jackets, so if you happen to go to Mamavation…I want I may inform you each single one, but it surely’s very complicated on the market proper now to search out out what’s PFAS-free, after which what’s just a bit part of PFAS-free. A few of these corporations which are producing clothes, aren’t wanting on the large chemical class. They’re solely taking a look at this over right here, they usually say, “We’re freed from PFC.,” however they’re forgetting all this different stuff over right here, you realize.


And there’s some certifications like Bluesign, as an example. Bluesign licensed is a kind of certifications that can enable sure varieties of PFAS chemical compounds within the certification and but they form of make a declare that they’re PFAS-free. So it’s complicated for the patron and the rationale it’s complicated for the patron is the scientists have simply form of gotten on the identical web page about the place this chemical is and what we’re going to contemplate as a part of the chemical. So I don’t need to say it’s all the companies’ faults, I’m saying that they’re doing what’s within the legislation, you realize, after they’re making these statements, however the statements are altering as a result of the science is altering. And because the science is altering generally the businesses are two, three years behind, you realize, the mantra, the way it’s described. And so I’m working into loads of that with jackets, like play couches, play modular couches, you realize, something like that, which may have like a stain-proofing about it. So simply be looking for that.


Tents and out of doors gear. Oh, gosh, I can’t…my cousins in Norway are going to chuckle at me, however there may be one model that we love a lot. And it’s received a J in it, I’ll put it in your notes, your present notes. It’s like a Swedish title and I can’t pronounce it as a result of I don’t communicate Swedish. And it’s received a J in it and I’m gonna simply completely butcher it. However there may be loads of European manufacturers that as an alternative of utilizing PFAS, like on their tents, as an example, they use beeswax and paraffin proprietarily put collectively and it does a really comparable or just about the identical factor. These merchandise are extra dear, you realize, you’re not going to discover a low-cost tent that’s PFAS-free with, you realize, extra pure…and I do know paraffin will not be pure, however like, you realize, it’s higher than PFAS. These varieties of mixtures which are much less problematic to the surroundings in an affordable approach but, hopefully the longer term will change that.


Then additionally, you realize, it’s in automotive wax and surfboard wax, these varieties of issues, and carpet and flooring. We did a bamboo investigation, we checked out a bunch of various bamboo floorings and we solely discovered one which didn’t have detections out of like eight or 9. So I’ve been enthusiastic about this by way of what’s round us. You recognize, if you happen to’re going to be doing flooring, as an example, you realize, we went after bamboo and we seemed particularly at bamboo as a result of why? I’m like, it’s inexpensive, it doesn’t dent, you possibly can stroll round together with your heels and so I used to be attempting to love, you realize, remedy all the issues after which we did discover one model. However it’s tough. It’s actually tough to keep away from it, you realize, grandstand overarching, eat out much less, mud extra, and cook dinner from scratch as a lot as you possibly can. These are the three issues that I might say would in all probability do probably the most bang on your buck and simply look out for locations who…like if you happen to go to mamavation.com, we’ve achieved an investigation on like loads of issues, not every little thing but, however on loads of issues. And that’s the…I’m attempting to reply that query, the place is it, how do I keep away from it? And I’m form of going class by class to determine it out as a result of each class is basically sophisticated.


Katie: Yeah, that jogs my memory, within the labeling, like, we began…such as you stated, we’re seeing some which are labeled as “freed from” sure ones of those, but it surely jogs my memory of when BPA grew to become well-known, after which it was like BPA-free. However these all had BPS or BPAF or different ones, that are as problematic, the place we’re now discovering, in some instances, worse. And so simply because there are some that label now doesn’t essentially imply, such as you stated, that they’re protected.


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And I do know out of your website, you’ve achieved investigations into all of those various kinds of issues. And also you gave us a family overview simply now. However I might like to undergo some others which are particularly in all probability relevant to mothers. So I cringe to ask, however the first being, what about, like, athletic put on like yoga pants?


Leah: So yoga pants wasn’t as dangerous, really. In order that was one of many higher ones. We examined about, I believe, 32 or 33, completely different yoga pants, athletic put on as a result of that was a query I had. I’m like yoga pants, you realize what I imply? I put on them actually every single day, it’s form of like my outfit, it needs to be like a uniform. And I do know each day, I’m sporting yoga pants, some shirt that’s actually comfy, and my hair is in a very messy bun, I received loads of hair, so this all goes up in a bun. So we checked out about 32 of them, we discovered 25% of these yoga pants had detectable fluorine within the crotch. Now, once I first began testing them, I used to be testing the knees, you’re not going to search out it within the knees. How do I do know? I examined to search out it. After which I believed to myself, the place would I put it? And so I had the lab repeat a few them with the crotch, bam, that’s the place it was. So about 25%. Now, not one of the natural manufacturers, if you happen to look in…not one of the natural manufacturers that we had examined, yeah, all of them had non-detect at 10 elements per million, so that’s protected.


We did a like a not our favourite, higher, and finest class of these 32. Those that we discovered detectable there within the high of the what we might not suggest, then there have been ones within the center, which have been artificial supplies so we didn’t discover something in them. So be at liberty to purchase them. After which for these of you who need the natural model that’s in the very best on the very backside. Yeah, so we tried to form of divide it in three for everybody to have the ability to determine that out as properly. So this was not as dangerous, however you’ll discover it within the crotch, which might be…it could be comparable in different pants too if you consider it, prefer it’s going to be within the crotch. Now, I don’t know is the reply to that. I’ll sooner or later, perhaps begin testing underwear and swimsuits and stuff like that, however if you happen to…to learn about that, I don’t learn about these but as a result of I’ve been requested that query. So I’m simply going to inform you I don’t learn about some fits and underwear but. However interval underwear, I do know.


Katie: Properly, that’s encouraging that there are these good choices out there as a result of I used to be not going to be prepared to surrender my yoga pants. However that does result in different athletic put on. So let’s discuss sports activities bras after which, because you talked about it, additionally interval underwear.


Leah: Yeah, so sports activities bras are fairly problematic. We discovered…so you realize your sports activities bra, there’s just like the outer a part of it after which there’s the internal half. So the internal half is that, like, form of pores and skin shade mesh that’s subsequent to your bra, which are subsequent to your breast. We discovered detections in 65% of sports activities bras in that mesh space. And once I advised my advisors about this, loads of them they have been pediatricians that have been, you realize, serving to me overview this one particular one, they have been involved and extra of our advisors have been involved as a result of that is the mesh that’s proper up towards your breasts. Now, right here’s the state of affairs I’m pondering of as a result of this was my life and nonetheless might be my life. You recognize, you’re a brand new mother, proper, and your child goes down for a nap, and so what do you do? You run off and also you do a exercise or one thing like that as finest as you possibly can and you realize you’ve received like 40 minutes to an hour, proper? So that you’re understanding, understanding, after which sweating up a storm and you bought your sports activities bra on after which, you hear the noise, proper, and also you’re like, “Shoot,” didn’t get the time, so that you didn’t have time for a bathe. So then you definitely run upstairs, you go get the child, and increase, breastfeed. That’s the state of affairs I’m anxious about.


So in case you are a breastfeeding mom, please watch out and take a look at my investigation for the not our favourite, higher, and finest. We discovered them in 65% of those merchandise, it was not every little thing. It was exhausting due to the high-impact bras, there weren’t as many good high-impact bras, however one in all them that I did discover that I believe individuals are going to be enthusiastic about is Goal. Goal has really been doing loads of work on PFAS and textiles and you could possibly inform as a result of once I examined towards that, they got here out clear. So if you happen to’re a giant busted woman, which I’m, my women are fairly massive…In case you’re a giant busted woman you don’t need, like, black eyes whilst you’re understanding, proper, Goal’s a kind of manufacturers. It’s not natural, clearly, it’s filled with artificial polyester and yada, yada, yada, however we didn’t discover detectable PFAS within the sports activities bras there. So that they’re known as All In Movement or one thing like that, in order that was good. And generally I simply hold testing till I discover one thing that I can put on, you realize, and that was a kind of points the place I simply stored testing. That was sports activities bras. In order that’s one you need to look on mamavation.com. In case you go there, we’ve received all the assessments listed proper there on all of the manufacturers that we discovered.


Katie: What about interval underwear? That is once I personally don’t have any expertise with as a result of I’m a giant fan of the menstrual cup as an alternative for the sustainability, which I do know interval underwear are as properly, however what did you discover when it got here to those?


Leah: It was fairly dangerous really once we seemed into interval underwear, we had…I’m attempting to recollect what number of we examined, it was over 20. I believe we solely discovered six manufacturers with out detectable ranges. Yeah, solely six, and the toughest half the place there are some manufacturers that truly market themselves as PFAS-free. I’m not gonna say which model it’s however it’s your decision to have the ability to determine that out, you’ll go on their web site, and they’ll present you scientific testing on how they will show that they’re PFAS-free. However you must have my eyes to know what you’re taking a look at. You take a look at that scientific research, proper, that they despatched off to the lab, the detection stage is loads larger than mine. So I take a look at at 10 elements per million. They have been testing at 50, so you realize what I imply, like, I can’t make any statements about that. However I might say there’s some humorous enterprise happening in that.


And the issue is…I, you realize, interviewed loads of the CEOs that had the safer interval underwear. And basically what’s taking place is what they stated to me is you could have lots of people on this trade that don’t actually have loads of expertise with textiles. Like, they don’t know loads about what they’re doing. They’re nice entrepreneurs, they’re nice, at loads of different issues, however they don’t actually know loads concerning the processing of textiles. And if you happen to don’t know, you don’t know what to say, you don’t know what to ask, after which she was additionally telling me that, she’s like, you will get Oeko-Tex material, so to talk, and ship it to the producer, after which the producer can be like, “Oh, would you like waterproofing on that?” And so they know that if you happen to put that on it destroys every little thing, like all of the accreditations and all that stuff, however they provide it anyhow. And so you realize, if you happen to’re somebody who doesn’t perceive the textile trade, it’s possible you’ll fall into that class.


So what I discovered in interval underwear wasn’t ranges that seemed like…there was a couple of manufacturers that had ranges that have been actually excessive, proper, I might be like, “Whoa.” However then there have been different manufacturers that had ranges that have been low. And so whenever you take a look at that, it appears like extra of a contamination difficulty than it appears like an deliberately added difficulty. However I don’t know what, you realize, the distinction is when it’s proper up by your vagina. I simply don’t know, and no one is aware of. In order that’s why we have been in a position to do the classes we have been and I imagine it was…it could be seven now as a result of we hold testing. And we hold including to that report, you realize, each time we do discover one thing, and those that ship me interval underwear need me to check it, simply if you wish to try this I can take a look at stuff, simply hold it in its authentic packaging. I simply don’t need you contaminating it. However yeah, we’ve had neighborhood members purchase extra interval underwear that they need, they ship it off to me after which we simply go take a look at it within the lab simply to verify we all know out of all of the manufacturers that we will see. That’s not a very good one.


Katie: Gotcha. I’ll be sure we hyperlink to those as properly as a result of I do know you’ve written about all of those and other people can go search for the precise particulars. So for you guys listening, wellnessmama.fm can have all these hyperlinks. One other related one for mothers, what about ketchup? As a result of I do know for lots of youngsters, it is a favourite so as to add to loads of stuff. So what about ketchup?


Leah: Ketchup was simply heartbreaking. Ketchup, the overwhelming majority of the ketchups that I examined, all had complete fluorine in it. Now, I needed to clarify to everyone that I did complete fluorine assessments on the overwhelming majority of those ketchup manufacturers. I didn’t do natural fluorine, however let me inform you form of what I’ve been doing. I’ve despatched about 350 issues off to the lab during the last 2 years, loads of testing. So that provides you an thought of how a lot testing I’ve achieved. And I might say 80% of that testing, we’ve achieved natural fluorine on. And once I first began, I did complete fluorine. So I wasn’t as savvy as I’m now to know concerning the distinction between the pure fluorine and the natural fluorine, which is artificial, and also you wanted to separate that. And so, you realize, my scientific advisors got here in and helped me with that after which we began, so ketchup is an older one.


However we discovered a ton of complete fluorine in ketchup, besides for 2 manufacturers. We didn’t discover it in Heinz, and that shocked me. So I used to be like, right here’s the common Heinz within the glass bottle, nothing, within the plastic bottle, nothing, within the little ketchup packets, nothing. We didn’t discover it, you realize, in any Heinz product. After which we didn’t discover it in 365 Entire Meals Natural Ketchup. So it made me assume that that could be white-labeled, perhaps white-labeled Heinz ketchup, are you aware what I’m saying? However then each different ketchup that we examined, we discovered detectable ranges, and loads of them have been actually near 10. So it was like they have been proper there, proper?


So right here’s the reply to that, of all the issues that I’ve despatched off to the lab, they’ve been ready…they usually do complete fluorine on every little thing, however then we run one other take a look at and it’s a take a look at for fluoride, proper? And what they do is that they search for fluoride after which they’re in a position to do a calculation to deduct the whole fluorine quantity from the fluoride quantity, and that’s natural fluorine, in order that they try this calculation for you. I’ve by no means seen, not potential, however I’ve simply by no means seen fluoride, greater than two, perhaps three elements per million. You recognize, so loads of manufacturers will need to say, in the event that they need to say it’s complete fluorine, I’ve not discovered that, you realize, fluoride to be a giant factor and something, you realize, I believe they need to assume that it’s but it surely’s within the stuff that I’ve examined, we’ve not. I did ship two of these manufacturers as a result of two manufacturers individuals have been actually, actually…they actually needed to learn about.


And that was Primal and Annie’s. And I despatched Annie’s and Primal out for natural fluorine testing after we put this up, they usually have been just about the identical quantity. So I believe that we’re discovering loads of indications. That’s the one the place I’ve to say learn it, however perceive the testing isn’t full. And I do plan on updating that exact investigation, including extra manufacturers, and doing the entire shebang, it’s simply in all probability not going to be till subsequent 12 months someday, proper? And I need to give these manufacturers a while to work on it. So I do know loads of them do learn about my testing and whether or not…I don’t know in the event that they’re making any strikes, as a result of they haven’t come to me and stated they’re making any strikes. In order that’s unlucky, however I’ll say in different manufacturers…or different industries, there’s manufacturers making some fairly hefty strikes right here.


Katie: So, to be continued, and I’ll put hyperlinks to the present ones so individuals can have these as a place to begin. And I do know that there’s extra to come back in different classes as properly. So individuals can keep updated with you to maintain an eye fixed out for that. It additionally makes me curious if it’s potential to get individuals examined for these compounds. And I additionally surprise like, is there even a…if you happen to’re going to weigh the danger and advantages, is it even price doing? We don’t know get them out of the physique and we all know it’s good to keep away from them. Like, is it price testing if it’s even potential? Or is it higher simply to know they’re dangerous and keep away from them?


Leah: So I want I might have achieved that once I didn’t end that query for you. I’ve a take a look at downstairs, there’s a model new take a look at that got here out. I believe it’s known as Empower FX. So I’m going to need to double verify on that. However there’s a model new take a look at the place you possibly can prick your finger and ship it to a lab. Now, it is a large enormous deal as a result of it’s not costly and it’s out there to everyone. So let me provide you with some background. So I needed to do a physique burden, you realize, scientific research. And I had loads of scientists concerned and we form of talked about it. And what we realized was, it was near not possible to do that as a result of your physique doesn’t launch it. So, you realize, it’s not like with polyphenols and, you realize, you wait per week later and also you simply don’t eat them or put them into your physique, they’ll be much less. That’s not the case of PFAS. So it’s actually exhausting to check in your physique, actually, actually tough to do these comparisons, so we ended up not doing it.


At that time, we have been wanting right into a lab that was about $1,000 a take a look at. Oh, yeah, loopy. So I’ll inform you my pleasure when I discovered a model who’s doing this for $250. And also you’re doing it at residence. What we have been going to look into was sending individuals to a draw lab after which sending it off to a lab in Canada. And prefer it was all of this, you realize, strategic, loopy stuff that we needed to do. However now there’s a firm, and I need to say Empower FX, and we’ll hyperlink that down under. However they partnered with Eurofins and Eurofins is a humongous $6 billion lab world wide. So it’s a very…that’s an amazing partnership. And so Eurofins is the companion on this they usually’re producing these little take a look at kits. So you possibly can take a look at your self, it’s a bit drip of blood, ship it off, and I imagine they’re testing for between 16 to 30 completely different PFAS, however the commonest ones that you just’re going to search out in water.


Katie: Good to know, I’ll put hyperlinks to that as properly if it’s in your website, or I’ll get that information from you for people who find themselves…


Leah: It’s not but.


Katie: Okay.


Leah: You’ve received it first.


Katie: How thrilling. And as I anticipated, our time, after all, flew by as a result of we at all times have such enjoyable conversations.


Leah: How has it been 45 minutes? Oh my gosh.


Katie: So we’ll simply need to do extra rounds of this as increasingly more investigations come out. However simply on the finish, I like to ask if there’s any parting recommendation you need to give to our listeners as we speak, might be associated to this or one thing completely unrelated to all of the mothers listening?


Leah: Oh, you realize, by way of these items, I might say don’t sweat the small stuff, proper? I imply, I’ve been doing toxic-free for seven years now, perhaps eight. And that’s one of many issues that I’ve discovered, you realize, I need to know what absolutely the worst issues are and I’ll keep away from these. And all the different issues, I’ll based mostly on my emotional wants at that second, proper? And so, by way of like, whenever you’re enthusiastic about issues, don’t freak out about one thing you employ as soon as a month, proper? What you need to take a look at are the large dailies, proper, each day exposures. So don’t sweat the small stuff by way of, you realize, don’t freak out over some factor that you just’re going to be consuming, you realize, or ingesting as soon as a month. So go off to your good friend’s home, eat the pizza, and drink, and the cake and, you realize, take pleasure in your self. As a result of the stress you could placed on individuals based mostly on being afraid of all these items, I believe, will be worse on you general than I believe the precise chemical compounds themselves and that’s what I’ve discovered through the years.


And so shield your house, shield your soul, so to talk, from being too afraid. I believe that there’s a distinction between having a wholesome concern of one thing that’s harmful, you realize what I’m saying, and avoiding that since you’re good. And likewise entering into the world of it’d being like a disordered pondering course of, you realize, the disordered pondering means of every little thing is poisonous will not be a very good place so that you can be. I need you to take pleasure in your life. And you realize, comply with individuals like Katie and I for, you realize, directions on what to do after which simply let it go. You recognize, that’s my recommendation is, you realize, management what you bought within the residence, exit and discover the world and revel in your self, and take a look at to not let your craziness sink into different locations is my finest recommendation.


After which simply, you realize, attempt to keep abreast of this, however you realize, that is a kind of points the place individuals are probably not contacting their elected officers about this. And I do know there’s lots of people particularly in like Republican districts and stuff like that, they’re not listening to sufficient from you, as a result of they might be doing extra in the event that they heard from you. And I actually really feel like for lots of girls who’re dwelling in Republic, congressional districts and stuff like that, name them, allow them to know you’re involved about this. Allow them to know that you just care, and also you care about them, are you aware what I’m saying? In case you’re voting for them, and that is your difficulty, guarantee that they know that that is necessary to them. As a result of I used to work for elected officers a few years in the past and I’ll say that when the ladies begin calling up, and after they begin pushing and honking on the doorways, they received their little strollers and stuff, you realize you’re in hassle. It’s the senior residents and the mothers and also you don’t need to piss off both of these teams. However you realize, that is simply one thing that your elected officers want to listen to extra from you on as a result of there’s loads of states and once I say loads, I imply loads of states proper now which are contemplating like 200 items of laws on PFAS. They should hear from you.


Katie: Yeah, I’ve stated that so many instances on this podcast that mothers are such a pressure of nature and that widespread coverage occurs when the typical mother adjustments her thoughts and will get concerned and that’s on so many various ranges. And I’ve seen it on a neighborhood stage. Really, the place I used to stay, it was attention-grabbing, on this state, homebirth was technically not authorized for some time, and a bunch of mothers I do know lobbied and received it modified. However I believe it doesn’t need to be…I believe we regularly don’t do it as a result of we predict it must be this enormous quantity, this enormous groundswell, it really doesn’t as a result of I additionally used to web page for representatives and it doesn’t take that many calls and letters earlier than they concentrate. So I might say don’t underestimate…particularly on stuff like this that pertains to our youngsters, don’t underestimate your energy to vary that. And likewise to echo your different recommendation, be careful for what you possibly can but in addition understand the physique is sensible and adaptable and designed to heal and keep away from the worst of the worst, however don’t let it rule your life or develop into demanding. And that applies to meals, that applies to what we work together with in our each day lives, and provides your self some grace on the finish of the day too.


Leah: Love you, lady. You’re so nice at summarizing my level.


Katie: Proper again at you, and thanks for the time as we speak. It’s at all times, after all, so enjoyable to get to speak with you. Like I stated, we’ll do it once more as increasingly more information turns into out there. However thanks for being right here.


Leah: After all. It’s my pleasure. Thanks for having me, Katie.


Katie: And thanks, as at all times, to all of you for listening and sharing your most useful assets, your time, your vitality and your consideration with us as we speak. We’re each so grateful that you just did and I hope that you’ll be part of me once more on the subsequent episode of “The Wellness Mama Podcast.”


In case you’re having fun with these interviews, would you please take two minutes to depart a ranking or overview on iTunes for me? Doing this helps extra individuals to search out the podcast, which implies much more mothers and households may benefit from the data. I actually admire your time, and thanks as at all times for listening.

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